The continuation of the interview with Gigi de Groot – CEO of itim international, global consultancy network. The interview is focused on intercultural management, trends in the field of cultural differences education. Here is the first part of the interview.

Michal: What are the trends that you observe over the last years in the field of intercultural management?

Gigi de Groot: If we go back around 25 years when we started as first in the field with the training ? it was itself the trend. ;)

Toward end of 90s most of market players in this field offered ?dos? and ?don?ts? ? quick introduction on how to behave in other environment. It can of course help you a lot, but from our perspective you will never get all the answers because you still don?t know ?why? people behave differently.

If we look further ? we noticed more companies and the value of the culture is not about the national differences but also about organizational culture differences. Recently we have added even the third level to that ? what is the latest trend ? culture and personality, this is where coaching comes into the picture.

Can you give an example here?

Let?s assume that a company wants to expand its business in Russia. They had difficulties and had certain plan and now they see that they are not going to make it. Very often companies copy what they do at home in the new market. But if that is not a good cultural fit then yes, you can be successful in your home market but you can fail in the new market.

Now let?s imagine that they have realized that they need to change there, they need different organizational culture in Russia and need to hire new head – someone who has a better fit with the local culture. That individual needs not just to be very cultural aware of national differences and also know how to provide organizational culture elements from the mother company versus local company. What?s more – that person on the individual level needs the right skills. And here comes the coaching as key element. It enables to combine traditional intercultural training with personal soft skills.

Summing up trends: we have coaching, but also moving towards more strategic look ? implications of culture for company in general ? instead of focusing only on things like communication or behavioral issues.

Is overall, so called ?global? ICM awareness growing, as we have Internet, media and we have constantly access to many cultures? Different cultures are at our fingertips. If we have so many possibilities of interactions with other cultures ? are we becoming more culturally similar, or we become much more different, as we all the differences more clearly?

You can see both trends. The assumption of many people is that due to the globalization the cultural differences will disappear. They say: look at McDonalds or Coca-cola. Wherever I go I can buy the same products. But what?s actually is happening is that due to the fact that indeed all those different (similar) products are widely available around the world, we become much more aware of our own preferences.

But people do different things with the same products. McDonalds is a nice example. McDonalds in New York is a restaurant? well you can?t hardly call it a restaurant. It?s just a shop where you can buy a hamburger for a couple of dollars. It?s a quick meal and nothing special. The same McDonalds in Beijing is actually a restaurant. It?s one of the few places where young couples can go and have dinner together with just two of them without having all family around them. It?s not about quick nor cheap. It?s about showing up, sitting down, taking the time and spending money. The McDonalds is the same. The hamburger is the same. However the translation and deeper laying values behind what McDonalds stands for is totally different in New York and Beijing.

So when I say that you can see both trends you see people who claim we become much more ?one? culture. And there are many people who claim that the trend is just the opposite. Take a look at the political trends. We have EU, but there are so many countries fighting for their own rights. On the global level, there are more countries splitting up than going together.

I think that by all those influences we get from the outside world be it food, products, immigrants ? we can be inspired by those differences. I?m positive and I really believe in what cultural differences has to offer us. The more cultural differences, we can be more creative, we can have more possibilities, the more fun of life is.

Are there cultures which can?t cope together? Which are the most difficult to co-exist?

I will tell a short example answering this. If we would move to China we would assume that it?s so different that we need to prepare really well to cope with that. Contrasting this, it seems not so problematic or even traumatic to move to France, Germany which is very close by. You can assume: I can speak the language, I know many people from there, I?ve been there before for holiday. So we prepare to it in a different way and are therefore we are less prepared for the differences that exist.

I think everyone can learn to cooperate and work with each other. There are certainly countries that are extremely opposite. Perhaps a surprise for some people will be that such example is Belgium and The Netherlands. They are boarding countries. Half of Belgians speak the same language as the Netherlands. But from the cultural point of view they are completely different. So when in the past when many global companies decided to join Belgium and Dutch offices in order to cut costs, they realized after a while that it was not such a good decision. The Belgians and the Dutch ? employees and managers, have completely different view of opinions on how companies should be led, how meeting should take place, how people should be motivated. It was a huge frustration for both sides. I wouldn?t say that Dutch and Belgians can?t cope with each other, but it?s difficult.

You can also think about Japan here. In the sense that Japan is really unique. There?s no other country in the world that is like Japan. For everyone it?s difficult to relate to their culture. It?s difficult to find elements with which you yourself can identify with.

In how many countries does itim have its offices?

itim nternational has around 60 consultants in 22 different countries including China, Brazil, Korea. We are very strong in Europe, especially in The Netherlands where we started and the topic is most developed. And of course we are also present in Poland http://www.itim.org/pl/.

What?s especially challenging in being CEO of such global network?

Both most challenging and rewarding is the fact that we?re so multicultural. We have to apply what we teach also to ourselves. Living every day with different cultures is difficult. Sometimes I think that I may act in too much Dutch way, being to straight, too blunt. So before I send an e-mail or pick up the phone ? I think about what am I going to say and how am I going to say what I want to say. I need it to be both culturally appropriate and effective as well.

What?s also really challenging for us is that we?re in 22 different countries. So when we have joint projects it?s a challenge to make sure that people will understand what?s required in the same way. We need to find the right balance between globalization and localization.

I love my work, I like the fact that there are so many different people among itim consultants. The more the better ? more variety. This variety is helping to improve ourselves.

Thank you for the interview

Thank you!

Below you can find the first part of the interview with Gigi de Groot on national cultures, cultural differences and on what you can benefit from understanding other cultures. Part two will be published soon. Gigi de Groot is the managing partner at itim international ? global network of intercultural management consultants. More about itim: http://www.itim.org/

Michal: What is intercultural management?

Gigi de Groot: Intercultural management is the ability to cooperate and manage people from other cultures.

What is the starting point of getting this ability?

If you want to have insight into what is peculiar, strange, funny, annoying about other cultures, you need to be able to compare it. You need to understand how others view you. Because only then you could understand why you yourself react in the way you do. You should start with insight into your own culture, before you could move on in understanding other cultures.

Suppose I?m interested in this subject. What can I do to be to be ?interculturally fluent??

Usually there are three stages. The first phase is being aware that there are differences. And it may sound logical, but many people are not aware of this. Especially if they never worked abroad or lived abroad. I?m not talking about going to holiday it?s different situation when you really stay somewhere for a long time.

It can take half an hour, to a couple of days of training on this ? before people will call themselves ?aware?. It depends on the individual?s background. The next step is to make sure that people will be able to identify and understand the differences. Again, it requires at least 2-day training and some follow up activities, usually a couple of months after the training.

The third step is to find a balance between adjusting behavior to the local culture and being effective. It?s really difficult, as you can?t learn it during the training. It?s more about the process that you have to go trough in your life. For me, even thou I work in this field, I continuously go through it and still learn it. You always can be astonished about other cultures.

What?s the most important about understanding other cultures?

The most important part is not to judge others. What is human is to judge, including your own norms and ideas ? what is ?normal?.

People need to understand that being different is not about being right or wrong. It?s about looking at the same thing from different points of views. Both can be useful to reach goals, because both are preferred by different people. If people got this in their picture they are already far. If you are able to be neutral and put your emotions in fridge for a second then you are much more open towards the fact that there are different ways to reach the same thing. If you understand that ?your way? is not equal to ?best way?, you are already going towards being cultural competent.

How often people get themselves in troubles due to not knowing cultural differences?

Many people are not even not aware of the fact that they could be in trouble. Because if you continue to look at the world though your own glasses, like you always done, you will not be aware that others will judge you as strange, funny, annoying, irritating. It happens to everyone, regularly. We continuously bump into issues where people do things in different way that you would yourself have chosen to do. It can happen as a tourist, business travel, when working from your own desk, emailing or calling colleague in another country.

Who can benefit most in the business world from becoming more culturally aware?

Actually ? everyone. One can think of companies doing business with other countries and markets. You can think of recruitment agencies ? where people from different countries are applying for job. And the list can go on and on.

Intercultural management is focused mainly indeed on business and aimed at people working in international environment, cross-border. It can also mean doing business only with one country ? for example your neighbor country which can be completely different. It?s crucial importance, because in each company you can hear similar stories: we want to sell more, be more efficient, cut our costs and cooperate more. In all those points culture plays important role. You need to know where culture comes in. You need to know how to improve the effectiveness. If you work internationally, you need to know how to motivate people from different cultures.

When a person goes to training or ICM process ? what can she expect?

If we focus on training ? the process always starts with awareness. Awareness is easiest explained by going trough simulation which can create so called ?shock effect? ? what it means to cope and cooperate with people who think and act differently that yourself do.

In our approach we introduce the participants of the intercultural management course to the 5-D Model, that was developed by prof. Geert Hofstede. The model is the most scientifically valid models that exist in the field of culture. Of course you can?t explain everything with the model, but still, up to 50-60% can be explained. We explain this model in such a way that they will understand each dimension and to understand the cross over effect ? of the combination of dimensions.

To give you an example ? a country can have a very hierarchical way to look at the world in organizations. And there?s a need for that. In the same time people in that country could be very individualistic. Now when those two factors are present ? as in Belgium, France, and to some extend Poland ? the tricky thing is that for example, if you?re a boss you need to tell your people what to do. But if you are not around, not controlling to some degree what they are doing ? they will do their own way. If you come from a culture that is opposite to this ? you don?t know this. From countries like UK, USA, Sweden, Germany ? you?d assume that if you ask someone to do something and you come back one month later the thing has been done. In their culture it?s not very motivating to check and control. If you control in their countries, is you ask too much it means ?you don?t have faith in me?. In Poland, Belgium, France, asking many times means ?I care about this outcome, it?s important?.

Back to the training. Once we feel that people are competent with the model, we work with participants-specific situations. Like negotiations, project management, specific countries.

Our final step in the process to become cultural competent is to look at participants own experiences. We are aware that you?re not able to learn during one or two trainings everything that will happen ? it?s impossible. What we can teach ? is to understand the concept, the model, the process, so that they can reflect later upon own behaviors and situations that they go through in everyday life.